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10 hours ago by kens

It's a surprise to see my blog post from nine years ago (!) at the top of Hacker News. Anyone have questions about chargers?

4 hours ago by zamalek

Audiophiles swear by Apple chargers as a power source. It's a needlessly clean power source. I was having extreme issues with noise from my DAC, to the degree of clearly audible at normal listening levels. Apple sorted that right out.

The charger is the only product I will buy from Apple. It's complete and utter overkill, you'll never have problems for a very minor premium (absolutely speaking, not relatively).

2 hours ago by dep_b

Do you have some sources for this? A quick google search turned up nothing

2 hours ago by samtheprogram

Professional (and generally speaking) audio equipment can produce undesired sound effects if thereā€™s any voltage irregularities going on. I know that certain outlets in my house that cause static noise out of a guitar amplifier because they arenā€™t.. perfectly wired? Also, I know audio engineers will typically plug their equipment into an outlet that is separate from their computer to avoid this as well. I havenā€™t studied electrical or sound engineering too deeply but I have noticed the same. Knowing that this is a general issue, I did a quick search and found this: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/manufacture/0712/

25 minutes ago by jwatte

Google "balanced power for tube amplifiers" and see how far that rabbit hole goes ...

(And it's not all superstition, and it's not all for tube amps -- it's all in the SNRR of your power stages for every piece of equipment in your sound chain.)

9 hours ago by Causality1

It would be interesting to get a real expert's explanation of how the ways the Nintendo Switch violates the USB specifications leads to third party docks sometimes frying consoles, or maybe an explanation of how phone manufacturers can charge batteries at absurd C rates without killing them.

23 minutes ago by jwatte

10C isn't an absurdly fast charge rate if your battery has very low internal resistance. Drone / RC people have been doing that (and more) for years, as their batteries are often made for 50C+ discharge rates.

8 hours ago by duskwuff

> third party [Switch] docks sometimes frying consoles

Simple: an early third-party dock for the Switch, made by Nyko, implemented USB-C incorrectly and could deliver up to 9V on the CC1/CC2 (configuration channel) pins. These pins are only supposed to have 5V on them, and a USB-C interface IC in the Switch was frequently damaged by that voltage.

The Switch was fine. The fault was entirely in the dock.

7 hours ago by Causality1

The Switch violates protocol in many ways: https://web.archive.org/web/20190201011444/https://plus.goog...

6 hours ago by InitialLastName

> The Switch was fine. The fault was entirely in the dock.

... and now those of us who design things with USB-C ports have a very clear market study in "should we shell out the $ to protect the CC pins against a short to VBUS?"

10 hours ago by bredren

Thanks for the previous work. I was most interested in your prose about the old, recalled Apple charger, where design suggested to you someone at Apple was told ~ā€œbe sure these never can come out again.ā€

Most of the action in chargers right now is in 30 watt USB-C. Everyone wants the fasted charge possible.

New iPhones can apparently consume 22 watts plus (via usb-c to lightning and macs and iPads (I believe) can pull the full 30 over an appropriate usb-c.

As a result, when shopping for USB-C chargers, or power strips containing USB-C, I study the supply carefully to make sure they provide this or if not Iā€™ll be happy enough consuming a standard wall plug with a 30W adapter.

These adapters seem to have shrunk in the past two years due to GaN, or Galium Nitride instead of silicon. (I have not read what this means exactly but it is in the marketing copy)

One of the bigger electronics accessory names was the first, but now you see no-name brands offering GaN as well.

To my knowledge, Apple has not introduced GaN-based power adapters but I could be wrong.

Regardless, it would be very interesting to read a study of yours of 30W chargers in this class.

For example, this no name brand is selling two for $20, a very low price point: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B098J6LN4Q/

Versus Anker and the other big names which have similar, higher priced versions.

Iā€™m presuming the cheap one linked above is likely to set my home on fire. But maybe not? You would be the one to speculate.

Iā€™d be happy to fund a portion of the purchases needed for such an article. My email is in my profile.

9 hours ago by londons_explore

GaN is a type of MOSFET, which is the high power transistor at the core of all modern power supplies.

By choosing GaN, the MOSFET can be switched quicker without wasting too much energy as heat. That in turn means all other components (capacitors, inductors) can be made smaller in the same ratio.

The end result is modern GaN technologies allow someone to make a 30 watt power supply in the same physical space that a 5 watt power supply from 2005 took.

10 hours ago by deadmutex

Would love to see this type of post for framework's power adapter: https://frame.work/blog/power-adapter

10 hours ago by kens

That's a pretty cool GaN (gallium nitride) charger. I'm guessing that it uses the InnoSwitch4-CZ control chip. That chip is interesting because instead of having separate chips on the primary (high-voltage) and secondary (low-voltage) sides of the transformer, they use a single chip that contains circuits for both sides. Internally, the two sides are isolated and communicate via an inductive coupling link. The chip looks very weird because it has a super-wide drive pin.

https://www.power.com/sites/default/files/documents/InnoSwit...

10 hours ago by toomuchtodo

Would pay to see a Ting electrical system sensor torn down.

https://www.tingfire.com/

9 hours ago by kens

My guess is that it has an analog-to-digital converter to measure the line voltage at high frequency and a microcontroller to analyze the data to look for transients that indicate arcing. I found a datasheet for an arc-fault detector chip for solar panels which would be similar concepts: https://supp.iczoom.com/images/public/20181016/1539670869717...

10 hours ago by lmilcin

> (...) roughly 4mm of distance is required between the two circuits. (As I discuss in Tiny, cheap, dangerous: Inside a (fake) iPhone charger, cheap chargers totally ignore these safety rules.

Which is why I immediately destroy any charger at my home that is suspect to not come from a brand name producer.

Is it really worth to risk your life for couple of dollars?

Electronics is my hobby and I also happen to design some switch mode power supplies for AC. I can't overstate how difficult it is to design a good safe SMPS. Comparing to my other projects it seems it is at least 20-50 times harder to design a dedicated SMPS than the rest of the circuit, even with a lot of specialized literature on the matter to help me out (meaning I don't create my own topologies, I just learn the ones that are well described in the book). And that for applications under 100W.

10 hours ago by intsunny

It's a shame so few companies still make high quality 5V/1A chargers anymore. Apple seems to be the only one left that does so, and with consistent and predictable manufacturing.

5V/1A is great for overnight charging. I've noticed my phone battery lasts so much longer the next day.

10 hours ago by jbay808

I don't know if it's unique to them, but Sony slow-charges up to 80-90% until about an hour before you set your alarm, then brings you up to 100% before you wake up. Seems to work well and the battery degradation I've seen, after 4 years, has been very minimal.

10 hours ago by outworlder

This also exists on IOS.

10 hours ago by naavis

OnePlus does the same.

10 hours ago by salamandersauce

At least with Samsung you can turn fast charging off. That's what I do most of the time. I only fast charge if I need it fast.

4 hours ago by Antrikshy

Is there any truth to this? I have noticed battery life vary from 100% depending on if I use a different charger. But it only really happens when I travel, so I chalked it up to different usage patterns or climates.

3 hours ago by Daneel_

Iā€™ve always charged my phone with 1A chargers in an attempt to preserve the battery. My current phone is an iPhone X I bought at release in Nov 2017, and the battery health is still at 89% according to the battery information page. Subjectively I still feel like I have good battery life too.

3 hours ago by ojame

Anecdotally, I have an iPhone 8 Plus that for the last 18 months or so I've nearly exclusively charged with my Macbook Pro charger, and the battery health is at 82%.

4 hours ago by LeoPanthera

Many cheap wireless "Qi" chargers are limited to 5 watts.

2 hours ago by fomine3

The purpose to avoid quick charging is to avoid battery degrading, but Qi is really bad for this due to heat.

10 hours ago by zz865

I've seen many house fires over the last few years that were from chargers. I'd hope risk of bursting into flames is one of the most important things when choosing - it freaks me out. I'd hope the big brands have 0% chance of this - is that correct?

10 hours ago by cyral

This is what sketches me out so much about electronics like chargers by random brands on Amazon (the trend lately seems to be random characters in all caps) that surely have no oversight or conformance to standards.

10 hours ago by JamesSwift

Its been a while but my first macbook charger came close to setting a fire I think. I smelled something as I passed my bedroom, and found that the computer charger was smoking. I unplugged it from the computer/wall and put it in my sink and things were fine, but it definitely freaked me out. I haven't had similar issues since, but every single one of my dozen or more since have frayed _very_ quickly relative to other cords/chargers I use.

10 hours ago by tomjen3

I have seen the result of two mobile chargers blow up in the office - the fire was only prevented by fuses and even so there were black scorch marks on the power outlets. My dads battery charger blew up similarly.

In all cases it was because they were brought cheap on Aliexpres. I haven't seen any chargers sold elsewhere have any issues. The closest thing I got was when I charged my laptop on my bed and had put the blanket over the charger - it didn't fail but it got really, really, really hot.

So based on anecdata: don't buy things things to stick in walls on aliexpress. Also fuses are really nice.

10 hours ago by kitsunesoba

A lot of the chargers and cables you find in gas stations and the like are identical to the AliExpress junk, so itā€™s a good idea to be wary of those too.

3 hours ago by badsoftware

Stuff like this is surely part of why modern tech companies design their products to not be opened any more.

9 hours ago by vbezhenar

Apple Macbook charger was the only one charger in my life which released magic smoke. I must admit that it was after I soldered new cable and assembled it with duct tape (because it was glued and I broke the plastic casing trying to pry it off), but that does not inspire much confidence in me anyway. I don't know why everyone prays Apple hardware which was so terrible in my life in so many occasions and the only reason I tolerate it is their good software.

8 hours ago by llbeansandrice

You're blaming Apple for a charger that you took apart, soldered, and then put back together with duct tape, Elmer's and prayers?

7 hours ago by vvarren

LOL. This is sarcasm, right?

10 hours ago by andrewmcwatters

It might be a lot of profit, but it takes a lot of cash to hire the type of people who would design such a thing, first.

10 hours ago by JohnJamesRambo

I think it is pretty much the datasheet reference circuit so the people that designed the chip were already paid for that and that cost is in the bill o

10 hours ago by mshockwave

exactly, estimating the price solely by the sum of its components is like paying programmer by the number of characters they typed

10 hours ago by turbinerneiter

They make at least 200 million of those a year and they can use the same design easily for 5 years. 1 billion devices. 1 cent per device would allow them to spend 10 million on the development.

Development cost is neglible for this kind of stuff.

10 hours ago by kens

Yes, exactly! Also, a lot of the design work is done by the manufacturer (Flextronics) and the semiconductor company. Apple has different charger designs (that look identical outside) so they can play off different companies against each other.

10 hours ago by andrewmcwatters

Yes, certainly, but it also implies one has sufficient demand to make back the cost.

10 hours ago by arthurcolle

an hour ago by shreddit

The ones sold in Europe are not nearly as small as these, thatā€™s because the last time i went to the us i bought one of these little cubes, although i can not use it. But i really like their design.

8 hours ago by dang

A couple of past threads:

Apple iPhone charger teardown (2012) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23057091 - May 2020 (71 comments)

Apple iPhone charger teardown: quality in an tiny expensive package - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3996171 - May 2012 (167 comments)

10 hours ago by greggturkington

Can you believe a new iPhone 5 only included a 5W USB-A power adapter?!

Compare that with an iPhone 10 5 years later, which came with a beefy 5W USB-A power adapter.

10 hours ago by samatman

That's infinitely more powerful than the charger which comes with the iPhone 12!

3 hours ago by Daneel_

I mean, thatā€™s the healthiest charger for the phone. I know youā€™re trying to say ā€œgive me a stronger chargerā€, but for others this is actually a selling point - I donā€™t want strong chargers, I want a well built weak one that preserves my battery.

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